Kerry should have patriotically skipped out on the war, like Bush did!

I wonder if he thinks "the Hyman Doctrine" should be applied in Iraq?

Or does it only apply to Democrats running for President?

Hey, hey c'mon now the VC were all over Bush in Texas... oh no wait it was VDs... never mind.

mark hymens THE POINT is pure propaganda, it disguises itself as part of people's local trusted newscasts.

& not only that, mark hymen has CRAPPY production values & uses 3rd grade logic.....& THATS THE POINT!!!!!!!!!

Since my location allows only WGME from Portland, Maine, to come in clearly, if I want to watch TV news I have to put up with a minute or two of Mark Hyman, often just before the CBS evening news comes on. The guy is incredibly insuferable! I didn't catch this latest on attacking Kerry's Vietnam actions. Good thing. My blood pressure would have shot through the roof! How can this guy be stopped, or at least countered. I've sent comments in to the "Mark Hyman" link on the WGME web page, but they select mainly stuff favorable to them for reprinting, or what they consider "shrill" attacks. Insuferable!

For your files:

mhyman@sbgnet.com

Exhibit A for the case to restore the Fairness Doctrine.

I thought the "Hyman Doctrine" was Powell's 'you break it you buy it' quote?

Someone should ask him what he would have done if confronted by a VC with a B40 rocket locked and loaded? Let him shoot it at his boat? What a dumbass, only exceeded in dumbassness by the dumbasses who buy this bulls**t.
So our troops shouldn't kill an enemy who's trying to kill them, just let themselves be shot? Why does Mark Hyman hate America?

For another instance of Hyman sliming Kerry:

http://blogs.salon.com/0003379/2004/03/11.html#a94.

For more on Hyman: http://blogs.salon.com/0003379/2004/01/21.html#a3.

I also know of one blog (The Counterpoint) that is devoted to Hyman:

http://thecounterpoint.blogspot.com/

Finally, David Folkenflik, media writer for the Baltimore Sun, has written a number of articles on him.

The only reason this news is interesting is that it shows that the After Action Report correlates with the SVBT guys say, not what "Tour of Duty" or the Kerry Campaign says.

Even most right wingers feel it deserves a commendation though a Silver Star seems excessive. The real issue is that both Kerry and Bush talk up their service record.

If the Kerry campaign gave voters a real agenda, no one would care.

Yup Bastard. The sliming of Kerry's war record is all his own fault, just like any woman wearing a short skirt deserves to be raped.

You flaunt it, you deserve it.

Plus, Kerry didn't bleed enough from his wounds for the Not-So-Swift-Liars. Shrapnel is for pussies, there's nothing that bad about red-hot jagged steel going the speed of sound. So what if he still has some in his leg? And Kerry's 20 personal kills wasn't enough, since Bush heroically killed way more beers than that in Alabama and he was in the shit for longer than 4 months.

OK, now I get it -- so Kerry doesn't deserve to be president because he went to Vietnam and got shot at and did deserve a medal, but a lesser one than a Silver Star. Why didn't I see that sooner? Four more years!

I guess I missed a critical turning point in the ideology of the Right. It's now a bad thing for a US soldier to kill an enemy soldier?

Better tell that to the guys in Iraq.

Jeez, Will, no wonder you work for the Daily News and not a real paper.

That's not even close to what Opinionated Bastard said.

The fact of the matter is, Kerry said if people wanna question anything about his Vietnam record, they should "bring it on".

Well, now people have done just that, and his current response is "ow, ow, stop hitting me. That hurts".

Where did OP say Kerry doesn't deserve to be President? He may believe that but he didn't say it.

The only thing bastard said that was wrong is that both Kerry AND Bush talk up their service record. Bush doesn't talk his up because he knows there's nothing to talk up.

And of course Ras just posts the usual stupidity and talking points that he posts over at the site of Oliver "I'm a Soros whore who works for the known and admitted and pathological liar David Brock" Willis. That stuff passes for logic over there but not in the real world.

Yes, Jeff, you and your buddies made it such a joy posting at Oliver's place that I haven't posted there in months.

Arguing with pathological morons like you who feel some searing need to disrupt conversations between people who disagree with them gets old fast.

So "Mission Accomplished" prick troll.

Er, no 'jeff,' that's not quite right. Leaving aside your pathalogical issues with Soros (Scaife-Olin-Bradley much?), George W has indeed used his guard service to political advantge. It's all over his official Hughes-ghosted biography ('A Charge to Keep,' no less) and recently his claims about 'airforce' service have been scrubbed from his official bio because they don't pass the laugh test.

Bush has used his Guard Record when it was still safe to do so.

Kerry, on the other hand, far from saying 'ow, ow,' (although I'm sure the notion of his being a girlie-man titillates you, 'jeff'), has simply said very little himself. And since 99% of the Swift Boat Liars stuff is just innuendo and slime, he doesn't ultimately need to say much.

But no doubt you're merely a 'concerned libertarian.'

I never ceases to amaze me how reality becomes irrelevant in politics. There are some simple facts that always vanish in the pursuit of agenda. The simple fact is that the 527 war started over a year ago with countless ads, books and stories bashing the President with virtually no basis in fact other than a pure disdain for the man. It continues now with the swift boats issue and they are all wrong. I am amazed how people on the left routinely believe any accusation about the man as fact and ignore the fact that these accusations are as wrong as those leveled against their candidate. They both have public service records that they can stand on. It is pretty obvious that Kerry will not be engaging in hand to hand combat in the oval office and Bush won't have to fly combat missions either, so their military records mean little at this point. They should be judged on their records in office. I understand why Kerry wants to avoid that. He lacks a single piece of major legislation that is his baby. that is not debatable, that is fact. Read the records that can't be can't be fudged, check voting records and then decide. Don't let a bunch of gossip columnist genre articles guide yo.

Oh yeah, whorfin, Kerry hasn't talked at all about it. He only based his entire convention around it AND used it in his incredibly lame speech right after Bush accepted the nomination.

In fact, he's talked so little about Vietnam that Bill Clinton told him to talk about it even less.

Good God you people are dumb.

And Ras, poor little baby, i see you haven't improved your debating skills much. I mean, just yelling "troll" is SOOOOO Oliver Willis/Kevin Drum comments.

Maybe Mark Hyman's aggressive dumbness has it's roots in his childhood, when his classmates learned his last name sounds like part of the female anatomy.

There seems to be an interesting trend of comparing where Kerry and Bush were at the same time (eg. Kerry was under assault when Bush was training for the gig he got with the help of his congressman Daddy's rich friends, the last part at least according to the discredited witnesses and forged documents relied on by CBS.)

The other recent question has been "Where was George Bush in 1972?" Well, we do know where he wasn't. He wasn't serving as an officer in the Naval Reserve at the same time he was falsely representing to Congress that tens of thousands of U.S. servicemen were committing war crimes on a day to day, systematic basis with the knowledge of their superiors. He wasn't meeting in France with representatives of the Viet Cong during wartime while serving as an officer in the Naval Reserve. He wasn't attending meetings in Kansas City where there were discussions of the assassination of elected officials while serving as an officer in the Naval Reserve. He didn't fail to report discussions about assassinating elected government officials while an officer in the Naval Reserve. George Bush could have been dealing cocaine and running crack whores and he still would have been more honorable than JFKerry in 1971-1972.

There are two different life stories here:

Candidate A volunteers for the Armed Forces to risk his life Vietnam, faces combat, experiences the horrors of war firsthand and realizes the mistake of invading Vietnam. A realization the whole country would make later on.

Candidate B, when facing the draft, uses his silver-spoon family connections to avoid active duty and get assigned to the Champagne Unit of the National Guard, passing over thousands of less privileged Americans who had to die in Vietnam. He fails to show up for months at a time of his stateside Champagne Unit Duty.

Any Alabama Mailroom Veterans for Truth show up yet to testify they saw Bush "in action"? Why did he not take a mandated physical which resulted in his being grounded?

And somehow, right wing blowhards would have you believe Bush is more "honorable". Bush is somehow stronger, tougher, the man to lead us in the war on terror?. Can they name any concrete action Bush has taken during his life that would indicate this, besides his fake southern accent and cowboy swagger? Maybe it's because he sent other, less privileged americans to die in a war of choice in a far away land? Bush's personal history seems to be repeating itself, so I think it's pretty important to discuss.

Actually, candidate A tried to get a deferrment, was denied, then volunteered because volunteers were treated better than draftees.

Candidate A also, AS HE HIMSELF HAS ADMITTED, volunteered for Swift Boat duty when it wasn't the least bit dangerous.

Nobody will argue that Bush's Vietnam record is remotely close to as impressive as Kerry's, but at least get your facts straight.

By the time the election rolls around, I get the feeling that the reich-wing-nuts will be opening a war crimes tribunal... on John Kerry. In his senate testimony he's said that he's seen war crimes being committed. So the reich-wing and their infinite innuendo will claim he's responsible, and the media will lap it up like so many reproductive bodily fluids.

Jeff ... you live in La-La land.

The facts are, John Kerry had bullets flying by him and served with exceptional courage - and nobody can take that away from him. He did it, he made it out of Vietnam in one piece, he's got a right to brag about it. This is 99% of the facts. The rest of 1% - whether he volunteered b/c he couldn't get a deferment, or whether he volunteered for swift boat duty because they were "safe" - don't matter; the guy ended up doing one of the riskiest jobs in Vietnam (as David Hackworth points out) and proved his courage.

This isn't even about George W Bush. The problem with all the attacks on Kerry is that they're ignoring 99% of the facts and trying to find some little bits to slime him on - and they have a hard time finding even that. Attacking a veteran that earned his right to speak on the war is IMHO the lowest form of attack.

Let me repeat: Kerry was in Vietnam, he put himself in harm's way for the USA. He EARNED the right to brag about his Vietnam experience and to run for president on it if he wants. It's really miserable to attack him for this, and you don't deserve any respect for doing it.

ctrl,

First off, whether or not you feel I deserve respect is about as important to me as that pigeon that just flew past my office.

Second, are you sure you're not a Daily News Editorial Board member, because you can't read very well and you lack basic logic skills.

I never said John Kerry doesn't have the right to base his campaign on the fact that he served in Vietnam. In fact, if he wants to base his campaign on the fact that the Patriots won the Super Bowl and they're from Massachusettes and so is he, he has the right to do that too.

I just said A) it's a mistake and no less than Bill Clinton seems to agree and B) I was responding to someone who said that he really hasn't talked about it all that much, which is complete and utter bullshit. If he hasn't talked about it much, why did Bill Clinton supposedly tell him he's talking about it TOO MUCH and C) while I don't really care about what the SBV have to say about him, you can't base most of your campaign on Vietnam and then cry about it when other people who were also over there raise questions about it.

Further, as you yourself acknowledged, albeit in an incoherent, roundabout way, the facts I mentioned about him trying to get a deferrment and volunteering for swiftboat duty at a time when it wasn't dangerous are completely true. That's not attacking him, it's simply stating a fact.

Not to mention that, regardless of the facts i mentioned, I said his service record was impressive. How calling his record impressive constitutes "attacking" him in your eyes is beyond me, unless, of course, you're just another lefty who blindly spews the Terry McAuliffe talking points and doesn't bother with those pesky facts.

OK, all done. You're now free to once again completely miss the point and go back to your clueless little world.

When genuine decorated war heroes ran against known draft-dodger Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996, all you Red-as-a-baboon's-ass barking moonbats were saying "military service doesn't matter," "Vietnam was a stupid war," "I'd have dodged the draft too," "Down with fascist militaristic warmongers," blah blah blah.

Now, though, you're saying that serving honorably in the National Guard isn't good enough, and that only Super Soldier Kerry, who first tried to get out of the draft with a deferment application that was refused, then and got five medals in four months (ask anyone who's ever been in the service how plausible THAT is), then bugged out and returned to the US to join Communist front group VVAW and perjure himself under oath before Congress by uttering Soviet propaganda that was slander against every American who ever wore the uniform, can save us now.

Either this is a valid issue or it ain't. Choose one. Could y'all make up your wee li'l minds? KTHXBYE!

"all you Red-as-a-baboon's-ass barking moonbats..."

Um, if you're going to rant, at least get it right - don't you mean "blue-as-a-mandrill's-face?"

"Communist front groups"? "Not that dangerous"? "soviet propaganda"?

BTW, logic requires the joint utilization of rules of inference along with factual premises in order to reach useful conclusions. When you freepers return to the hospital after your little "Dream Team" adventure today, you should go and talk to some of your less-mobile brethren and ask them to explain the nature of their afflictions. You will find that after you swallow (as I have now every reason to believe that you will) the part about the Bilderburger's long hatred of their families and the poison gas that the CIA (at the command of Terry McAuliffe) has piped into the day room whenever they go to watch "The Young & the Restless", and the sinister visitors with cold, thin voices only they can hear that steal their precious bodily fluids for the masters of Sirius, You might say, "Gee, no wonder you look a little peaked." Let me type slower for you: if you buy bullshit premises, even ironclad logic leads to the same shit as a conclusion. The ludicrous poses struck by the Kerry-haters are intended to lend what they evidently regard as credence to their wounded ravings. There is no factual basis for anything that any of the freepers have stated here. Many of the lunatic spewings regarding the war in Vietnam reflect a frightening degree of just plain ignorance about how those 2.5 million Vietnamese managed to wind up dead and the role of the US in promoting that result. Some of the stuff about Kerry's motivations and the supposed details of his inner life are LOL funny. What do a bunch of outpatients know about the inside of Kerry's head when their own are caldrons of out-of-control chemical interactions requiring industrial-strength interventions just to move into that coveted position at the sheltered workshop?

One last quick note: nobody ever has to prove a negative proposition. You may once have heard Judge Judy refer to something called the "burden of proof"; in this case, all of this piffling chin music about Kerry is of no moment when you consider that shrub has stated for YEARS that he completed his service honorably, he was proud of his service, blah, blah, blah. I never asked him, so any attempt to excuse slanders against Kerry are obviously rank hypocrisy when you also get your panties in a bunch whenever anyone points out the painfully evident truth that shrub has never come close to meeting the burden. Only a moron would accept as a serious contention that shrub was in Alabama for a year but can't find anyone for love or money that will simply say, "Sure, I saw him there during the interval in question. After all, there were never more than a few dozen pilots attached to the wing at any given time, so extra chromosomes would be the only explanation for anyone that didn't know that he was there." Everything else is the sheerest tissue of fabrication; his obligation was to be there (I happen to know that the US armed services are notoriously anal-retentive concerning the whereabouts and availability of all their chattels), and if he had been there, he could prove it beyond dispute before god heard the news. The Dream Team would be the winners again! There's a movie in this, starring Zippy the Pinhead and Rain Man.

And leave those pigeons alone! Are you collecting for Bill Frist or what?

What a bunch of cry babies! I didn't see the Democrats jumping up and down to stop the insane move "Farenheit 9/11". What traitors during a time of war......

Gee, Bobby, maybe that's because, setting aside the issue that Fahrenheit 9/11 is composed of facts, it's a MOVIE (or as you like to call it, a "move") that people have to PAY to go see. Sinclair's latest gambit is using the PUBLICLY OWNED airwaves to force its stations to air propaganda.

See the diff yet?

If you loathe Mark Hyman as much as I do, you might get a kick out of my daily fact-check and rebuttal to "The Point."

Here's the link: http://thecounterpoint.blogspot.com

Enjoy!

Ted

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