I'm 56 and I'm not fat. However, I think most people have a preference when it comes to dating. I like men with a little extra weight. I also have other preferences that I won't get into.
I don't think there is anything wrong with expressing what you find attractive in another individual. Especially if you are considering that person for a future relationship.
I'd rather know if that individual is attracted to me physically before I invest my time or energy.
There's nothing worst than trying to make a relationship work when the other person is not really into you.

I thought this guy came across as rude. There are average (meaning heavy by his definition) people out there who are physically fit, they just aren't stick people. Their body types run more towards being bigger. It doesn't always mean that they don't have any self-discipline or that they want to be fat. He is missing out on a lot because there are some very nice people out there who just don't fit in to the mold that he wants.

It is one thing to prefer that your date be taller or thinner or stronger than you. I know women who only will date men taller than them. Other women have hair or ethnic preferences. We all have our preferences.

John, though, has a different problem. He thinks that 150 is fat. Maybe if you are 5'3". I think it is pretty clear why this guy is single. He is very picky.

More productively, if you are having trouble finding what you want, you should think about it differently. 150 lbs looks differently on different women. John needs to be more specific about the type of figure he likes i.e. a Diane Keaton-type or a Cher-type. Remember to stay in your age range, John. No Cameron Diaz-types. A description will help him focus and let the women know what they are up against.

Huh, I'm befuddled. Two things come to mind. One, don't we get wiser as we get older? Don't we learn to appreciate the nuances of beauty? And two, as soon as John stops looking and strssing, someone will tickle his fancy. It works like that all the time!

The comments from only women so far sound sincere.
Will the men please weigh in on the overweight issue with women?
It is reported that the average American woman is a Size 12-14, which to me spells c-h-u-n-k-y.
Where did all the Size 0-8 go?
Am I right or wrong?

This really got to me today. I have eaten diet foods,taken diet tablets that swear you will weigh less than air if you complete the bottle exercise. I felt my body would just explode from pain, walked and jogged until I thought I was lost and haven't lost 5 lbs. Yet this guy John Tuttle) calls us fat or over weight. I'll bet he is 5'5''and weighs about 145lbs with no hair. And in case he didn't know - there is nothing wrong with wearing size 12. When I was younger I did wear a size 12 - weighed only 125 lbs and was known for stopping traffic on Broad Street. But years go past. Health fails and we can't always look like we did when we were in High School or College. Also check the Women's department stores. The Zero (0)to Eight (8) sizes are falling off the racks. The Tens (10) and up are completely gone.

I have to say - the guy's comments didn't bother me so much as one from Jill:

Being overweight for some is NOT "a lack of discipline, a disregard for healthy living, etc" - there are medical reasons that a person may also carry a few extra pounds - including a topic I should think the women who write this column might/should be aware of- Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.

I work out daily, watch what I eat and still - the weight holds steady at about 30 lbs. above what's considered standard for my frame and height.

For both John and Jill - assuming that just because someone carries some extra weight that they're undisciplined or disregard their health is the wrong way to search for the love of your life - just ask my husband.

Denise,
You're absolutely right. There are valid reasons for some people being overweight and there are far better criteria to judge a person by than the number on the scale. I stand corrected. Thanks.

I had to laugh at Tuttle's comment. And now for a shocker: I am an average size woman NOW (weight 135 lbs., 5 ft 6 in), but I used to be MUCH bigger. I lost over 150 lbs during the last couple of years, not on diets but by changing my lifestyle for good to be a healthy one. I work out intensively 5 days/wk for 90 mins (recumbent exercise bike), and I am a cyclist now as well. I use my regular bikes for everything from racing to running short errands.

Yet during the last couple years, I did not go instantly from 305 lbs to 135 lbs overnight. I'm sure if Tuttle had seen me during my transition, he'd assume I was not active, even though I was and am very active.

And here is another shocker: I PREFER heavyset men. I always did, even back in the day when I was size 2, in my early 20s. I'm now 44 and I would not even CONSIDER Tuttle if I knew his views. I dont like men who judge anyone by their size, because I dont (ok, I admit I dont like skinny guys, which puts me at a disadvantage in my cycling club because all the guys are bone thin!) But since Im happily married for 20 yrs now to a portly guy who is absolutely handsome to me (looks like my dad!)...I dont care.

I'm whats called a FFA, or female fat admirer. This means I like fat guys. I always did. My first boyfriend when I was 16 and 100 lbs was 250 lbs and oh so cute and gentlemanly! Unfortunately his family's move broke us up.

So a) dont assume all fat women are sedentary--some are changing their lifestyle as you look at them, but you dont know that because you dont see what they are doing (unless you see them in a gym)...and not all thin women (like me) like thin guys! One thing I DONT like AT ALL is bald spots of receding hairlines, or uncircumcised men. So hey, I can be shallow too! :)

RE: Donna's comments. Thanks for the response. However, it appears you do not have a clue about what men think is attractive. It is not Size 10-14 and up, not that anything is "wrong" with those sizes. Men seek physical beauty and want thinner women. Didn't you get the memo? We know that Sizes 10 and up are flying off the racks, as smaller sizes gather dust. That is exactly the point. Cut back on the ice cream and fried foods and get to the gym more often and hit the treadmill. MEN, how about some comments?

John -

Bearing in mind that this site is for women, and its main readership is women, and that your topic is women's body types, it's not surprising women are the ones responding. That said, as a guy, while I don't have any experience with the online dating or personals scene, I do know that various men find various kinds of women attractive, and many men find more than one narrowly-defined body type to be attractive, so saying "what men think is attractive" comes off as a little arrogant. Surely you're aware that notions of "universal" female attractiveness-to-men have waxed and waned along with cultural fads for hundreds of years. If you're sincere in trying to find someone I think it could help to be more realistic and less concerned about matching somebody to a beauty template.

What a crock! All these women saying "you shouldn't put so much emphasis on looks" but when Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise walks into the room or onto the TV screen, all conversation stops. Look, physical attractiveness, however defined is the initial cornerstone of most relationships. As far as medical reasons to be overweight, perhaps 5% of the population is afflicted with these conditions, perhaps less, yet 20% of women at least claim "there is nothing I can do".

The bottom line is that physical beauty is always the first thing we notice. When you're in a bar, restaurant or any other meeting place, you certainly don't notice the guys caring and sensitivity from across the room.

Another thing, these ladies are mentioning Venus Williams and Lindsay Davenport? Both of those girls are at least 5-10 or 5-11 and they are muscular and fit. Comparing the average woman to Venus Williams or Lindsay Davenport is like comparing Taco Bell to authentic Mexican Cuisine.

I agree with John too. Americans in general, not just women, need to stop stuffing their faces and sitting in front of the TV. How about this? Every commercial break you get up and do something physical. 5 push ups, 5 sit ups, knee bends, anything.

As far as "medical conditions" that make you fat, perhaps 5% of the population is afflicted with these conditions.

It all comes down to this, how much do you want it?

Do you want to eat greasy food or be attractive in a bathing suit? Do you want to eat huge portions or be eye candy? If you want it bad enough, it in this case being a nice body, just work at it. In this society there are so many alternatives to the crappy food we eat and the sedentary lifestyles we lead and we just ignore them.

I right now am maybe 10-15 pounds overweight, and it's my own fault. I ate badly and didn't work out for a couple months after me and my lady broke up and I paid the price. Now I'm working to get back to a normal weight and I know what I must do, close my damn mouth when food is around.

All this Atkins BS just goes to show how undisciplined americans are. You don't need to eat a low carb diet if you just eat right. You need carbs, along with protein and everything else in a balanced diet. Does anyone think that Atkins is balanced and healthy in the long term? Eating Bacon, egg and cheese omelettes every morning and cheeseburgers with no bun at night? What the hell ever happened to eating a balanced diet with a little of everything in moderation?

Moderation!

Yes physical beauty is the first thing that is noticed, but physical beauty doesn't always mean thin. Look at Queen Latifa and the model Emme. They are beautiful women, but they aren't tiny little Barbie dolls.

There are men who prefer larger women, even who prefer very large women. It is a cultural thing. White men of Euro descent usually prefer thin women, because that is what is dominant in the white Euro and US cultures.

Men of certain other cultures are turned off to thin women, and prefer meatier even larger women (Jamaica, Africa, Middle East, native Hawaiian, etc.) Latino men prefer women with big butts...so do African American men. White Euro men want women with small butts. Its all cultural.

Many centuries ago, there was a Stone Age goddess statue called the Venus of Willendorf. She was what Stone Age men found sexy and fertile. Its all in what culture you're from. :)

PS to Mike: as an athletic woman, I generally agree with your comments re: diet and exercise. I also agree with your dislike of ATkin$, which is nothing more than a heart attack on a plate.

However, I used to be quite fat. And I know that a woman (or man) who begins working out does not lose that wt overnight. Before you pass judgment on any fat person you see (that you dont know), dont assume they are gluttons or sedentary...they may be just like I was a few years ago--eating right (now), and exercising (now). You cant judge a book by its cover. If you could see me now you'd never believe I ever weighed 305 lbs at one time, but I did. I'm now that thin, svelte goddess all you shallow Hals dream about. But you know what? I'd NEVER date a man like that because any man who judges a woman solely by her weight is not a man I want--and I'm thin now.

Just my two cents, as a visiting male...

While I don't judge a woman or anyone by their weight, still, physical fitness to some degree is an indicator of a person's spirit and personality. Fitness (at any age, at any weight)shows that a person cares about themselves and their appearance and fitness, and, moreover, has the discipline to DO something about it.

When I have been most overweight and least fit was when I felt worst about myself, and I looked it... and I was probably a poor risk as a partner. You can write whatever you want in a personal ad, make excuses, shave pounds off your weight and ad inches to your height, but really, the way you look when you're active doesn't lie, does it? Because you feel different about yourself, and that projects into every other area of your life.

Max, what you say is generally true. However my point is that you cannot tell just by looking at someone if they work out or not. They may have just started last week, or a few months ago. And even if they have lost weight from working out, they may still have more wt to go. You can't judge a book by its cover.

You cant even say by looking at a big woman eating in a restaurant...you can't judeg by what she eats. That day may be her one day a week to eat what she wants.

I'm struggling with this very issue in my marriage. I'm 57 years old, 5'8" and weigh 156. I am very active and can still run with the 18 year old soccer players that I coach...OK not all of them, but most of them. I ski, both downhill and XC, ride a mountain bike and work out a few times per week. Nothing silly, just a 45 minute routine with no heavy lifting or high impact stuff.
Staying in shape and looking desireable is always something that I have felt to be important in my relationship with any women. I want to look attractive and be healthy for my spouse. I take no credit for doing it, I just do it and have done so for many years.
We've all heard this, but staying in shape can also be aided by climbing stairs instead of taking elevators... walking from concourse to concourse instead of taking the shuttle...parking at the far end of the lot...getting off one's butt is the essence of the issue.

My wife of 20 years now weighs in at around 180 at 5'6". I respect her for her role as a mother, homemaker, teacher, etc, but I feel she has let me down somewhat in her respect of me. She knew in the early stages of our relationship how important physical appearance is to me.
We are not talking about size 10, 12, or even 14's. We're talking 18-20. I wish that something could come over me to change this feeling but she is not physically alluring to me and has not been for at least 5 years. We do not sleep together and when I see her come out of the shower each morning I am saddened. There is no touching, no sex and no romance.

She has had access to the same country club that I have with a complete health club for many years. She doesn't use it. I encourage outdoor activity and have always said "you go work out after work and I'll cook tonight" to her lame excuse that she doesn't have the time. She chooses to watch TV for 2-3 hours per evening.

When we started dating I weighed 140 -145. She weighed 125. If we take the same ratios to her current 180, I would weigh 208. I'm sorry, but a
5'8" 57 year old guy who weighs 208 lbs would not be physically attrative to many women unless he had lots of $$$$ or she wieghed 180.

I'm not expecting her to get back down to the 120 she was 20 years ago. But would 140 be reasonable? I think so.

Unfortunatley, it may effect our future, and shallow or not, I want to be with someone who wants to look alluruing and attrative to me and for me just as I do the same. The subject is taboo and when I bring it up it usually results in tears and commments about how cruel I am.

I see some of my male friends who have also gone to seed and they always remark, "You're lucky Glenn that you look so good." Luck has nothing to do with this. It's work. Dedicated, hard work and there are no short cuts.

Both men and women of all ages need to eat a reality sandwhich (whole wheat turkey of course) on this issue and take charge of their health and physical appearance. If you are honest about it, work hard and like the way you look, you will also like the way you feel.

It is a fundamental fact of life that physical attractiveness to a partner is important. Although some do, most men do not find overweight women attractive despite what they might say in the interest of political correctness. Just as many women prefer guys who are taller, men prefer women who are in good shape. It is simple evolution; we are attracted to people who we believe will produce the healthiest children. An overweight person is not as healthy. Also, the fact of the matter is that Americans are the most overweight culture in the world. We have a terrible diet. It is not just the amount of calories that we eat but the types of processed foods that we consume. We are sedentary and would prefer to drive than walk. Working out may help some to lose weight but eating healthy is the key. One need look no further than countries such as Italy or France where the diet consists of plenty of fruits and vegetables and a limited amount of meat protein. Having lived in Europe, I can tell you that they consume just as many calories as Americans. They just consume the right kind of calories and get more regular exercise. This individuals response may be vulgar, but he has hit on a fundamental fact of life..."size does matter."

Glenn, You say your wife is 180 lbs and 5 ft 6 in? And a size 18-20?!

When I was 180 lbs (and I am that same height, btw), I was a size 14! I wonder why the difference? Now I'm much smaller than 180 but my size is much smaller too.

I have worked out a lot over the last few yrs and so maybe its possible that a lot of my weight (even at 180 was muscle. Maybe if your wife would start working out, she would stay the same weight but be toned, and muscular.

I dont think I have ever heard of a woman weighing 180 lbs but being size 18-20, are you sure about that?? BTW 180 is not a bad weight for 5 ft 6 in.

JD if women have to lose weight for men, then men have to get hair jobs for women. It's only right. I think we ladies should start being as shallow as the men, then see how the society would be!

Remember, a lotof us ladies can't stand men with bald spots, makes us feel like we're screwing Uncle Johnnie!

It wasn't my intent to get into a debate about any of this but since Annette brings up the issue that 180 lbs for a 5'6" woman is not a bad weight I refer to the American BMI Chart(Body Mass Index) publsihed by many organizations, one being the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute. Annette should familiarize herself with this Index as it is the new benchmark for determining body fat based on ht and wt. 180 lbs at 5'6" is the high end of overwieght at an index of 29. 30 is considered obese. I didn't make up the chart, I only read it.
As for dress sizes, I will sneak into the closet tonight and confirm dress sizes. What is the equilv of XL/XXL in dress and pant size?

Glenm, the BMI is outdated and does not apply to ppl who, for example, work out and gain muscle mass. According to the BMI, a bodybuilder who is 5 ft 5 in and weighed 160 of mostly muscle, is "fat"! The BMI can only apply to very sedentary ppl who never work out (which is not me, but MAY be your wife.) A much better test of true body FAT index is a caliper (used in gyms, check it out.)

As for XL and 2XL, if those are her sizes she is MUCH bigger than a measly 180. When I was 2X I weighed 280-300 lbs (I'm now around 130 or so.) Sure you're right about that sizing?

I'll tell you though, I like what Janice said: I think if men can judge a woman on body size, we can judge men on hair loss. And both can be changed (weight and hair loss), yet its often costly to change both (hair replacement clubs, and diet organizations.) Sure you want to "go there", guys? ;)

Let me tell you...my husband NEVER said one bad word to me even when I was at my highest weight of 300 lbs. NEVER. He always loved me, always made love to me, never was ashamed of me. And now that I have lost weight, he loves me no more or less. And because of that I have always respected and loved HIM. You have to give respect to get it, guys. My husband and I have been very happily married for going on 21 years and he is the greatest man to ever walk the face of this earth other than my late father. Why? because he loves me for ME, regardless of what size I am, was or will be. Take a hint.

Annette:

I've never had to rely on BMI, calipers or the float sink test. I rely on the mirror and how I feel about my lifestyle of excersice/eating etc.
The key is balance. Calories in versus calories burned...this shouldn't be emmotional.

You are obviously more informed about these things because of what you have gone through and accomplished. If you weighed 300 lbs then it was a survival issue for you to be informed. I'm sure it didn't take a few months or years to get to 300 lbs. And, as you know, it didn't come off overnight. It was hard work and I commend you for it.

Perhaps you are correct about my wife's size though. I am just guessing at the 180 number. Like I said earlier, the "number" is NEVER discussed as it is a taboo subject. Don't ask don't tell. I've already been scolded and told I'm shallow just for asking.I think this is typcal of the denial mechanism that many people use not only in weight issues but in other dynamics of life.

I have no problem going anywhere on this issue...hair...diet...excersise. I got into this discussion while surfing around the Daily News and was curious about the Janet Jackson flap and saw a link to Girlfriends Locker room When I saw this dialogue it struck a note with me. I am genuinely saddened about my situation in my marriage and responded with my heart. I had no malice toward anyone.

However, it appears that anyone who does disagree with people who have or have had weight problems are considered shallow and uncaring. So be it.

I don't have a weight problem. I can go on with my life. Now that you have conqered yours you should do the same.

I've already spent more time in this discussion then I intended to and I can see that the "Emperors New Clothes" phenomena sees to be the driving force behind much of this arguement.
Unfortunaltely, those who can benefit most from weight management are poorly served by denial and fantasy.

Okay-I'm only 21, but I've been overweight all my life. I am about 248 lbs *feel special, I never really reveal my weight* and I know how it feels to have someone look at you and think "Oh, she's lazy and unmotivated and a slob" I play volleyball and softball, I go hiking and camping and biking and I love getting outdoors and just moving. But because of this standard put on women, when I try to find a guy I almost have to prove that I'm not the stereotypical "fat chick". I used to be bigger and I'm doing something about it, but if men like John are going to be that arrogant in their thinking of who a person is based on their looks, he's going to be missing out on a girl with a wonderful personality, all because she had a "few extra pounds"

Hi Glenn, Actually (and this may shock you, it shocks most ppl), I was happy at 300 lbs. Yes, really. I never had issues with my size, I dressed sharp, men flirted with me (yes they did, not not until after I started dressing up more and carrying myself with confidence). My weight loss was a by product of something else going on in my life.

My father died in 1999, and I was searching for a way to remember him, to "keep him alive" so to speak. One of my fondest memories of him was waking up each morning and hearing him on his exercise bike in the next room. So...I started using my husband's exercise bike. And after I wore that one out, he bought me a recumbent one. And the rest is history. :)

http://www.sirc.org/publik/mirror.html

This British body image study has a lot of interesting points. It'll make you see how the obsession with thin women is peculiar mostly to European and American white culture.

In my opinion, men of such age wish to feel younger. They simply can't reseign themselves to the thought that they are not so young and handsome as they were once. Therefore they are trying to get themselves self-estimated by means of seeking the "thin" women.

I weigh 215 lbs. am 5'9" tall and am training for a marathon. I will run 18 miles tomorrow and I don't look like I can. I am fitter than most people I know. Mens ideals about what women should look like are based on our consumer and marketing driven society. I have no problem getting men excited and interested. The ones I choose are just more intelligent than the average man, and know when they have been duped by advertising and the media. I am beautiful, and would never date the men who have posted here. You are all too unintelligent.

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